Author Topic: keno  (Read 951 times)

Offline jenlasvegas

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keno
« on: September 14, 2014, 06:39:11 PM »
I've been in Vegas for 15 years. My new obsession is Keno. Anyone have any good tips!!

Online knagl

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Re: keno
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2014, 11:52:52 PM »
My new obsession is Keno. Anyone have any good tips!!

Don't spend too much money on it!  :)

Every now and then I'll throw a few bucks at keno hoping that lightning might strike.  It has on occasion (I typically only pick five spots so I have a realistic chance at winning, even though the top award is smaller).

Good luck!

Offline phil7200

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Re: keno
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 12:09:34 AM »
Check out the 'Vegas Vacation' movie scene near the end for a Keno great ending with Clark and Sid Caesar.   :D

Offline RecVPPlayer

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Re: keno
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2014, 04:30:58 AM »
Keno often offers very high casino advantages (I think often they are in the range of being over 20% and possibly it could be closer to 30%) and so it's not a great game to play.  Video Keno can offer lower casino advantages to be faced (at least in Las Vegas it can offer a casino advantage of about as low as around 5%), but it is played at a much faster rate than traditional Keno.  With Video Keno, it can be played as fast as your being able to play 2 or 3 or more games per minute (if you don't change the numbers) whereas with regular Keno, it's played at a slower rate between games (at least several minutes between each game).

There is a Keno Calculator (which will tell you what the return on a game is as well as its Variance [which is basically its Volatility Rate]) available for people to use on the http://www.wizardofodds.com website.  From there, you would go to the "Games Calculator" link and then from there go to the Keno link.  With this, you would have to input what the different hits are paying to receive an answer about the game's return rate as well as what its Volatility Rate is.  See below for such calculations on different 4 Spot pay schedules that are in Las Vegas.

What you are paid for the different hits for Traditional Keno will differ from casino to casino.  But with Video Keno, pay schedules can and very well do differ from one machine to another machine even within the same casino.

For example, with Video Keno, you could find pay schedules for a 4 Spot (I have seen all of these pay schedules on machines -- and they actually are all in the same one casino [Plaza Casino in Downtown Las Vegas] although in different locations of this casino) where there are machines that pay 2-5-68 (Return rate = ~84.98%, Variance = ~15.37), 2-5-77 (Return rate = ~87.74%, Variance = ~19.32), 2-5-91 (Return rate = ~92.028%, Variance = ~26.45) or 2-5-100 for 2, 3 and 4 hits respectively.  In this example, the 2-5-100 pay schedule would offer the highest return rate (its return is ~94.785%, Variance = ~31.67).

And so with what I've written above, you can see that there is a range of Video Keno game returns offered with these pay schedules that has the return running between about 85% and 95%.  This can very greatly affect your return.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 10:59:34 AM by RecVPPlayer »

Offline StatFreak

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Re: keno
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 05:17:48 AM »
I've been in Vegas for 15 years. My new obsession is Keno. Anyone have any good tips!!


Yes. Learn Video Poker.

As has been said, the best paytables for video keno are only 95%, while VP exceeds 100% in Vegas. And while those machines tend to lose out on comps, you could still play machines as high as 99.95% or even progressives that sometimes pass 100% and still get full comps in some casinos.


If you're talking about live keno, then God help you. The payback generally doesn't exceed an abysmal 75% (that's a 25% house edge) and I've found "special" and progressive paytables that were closer to 60% (a 40% house edge). With paybacks like that, you'd be better off staying home, flushing half your bankroll down the toilet, making yourself a bologna sandwich and watching the Simpsons.

For any Keno choice, I'd limit my selection to eight spots or less. The odds of hitting 8 of 8 are 1 in 230,115. For 7 of 7 it's 1 in 40,979.
The higher spot tickets get into the millions and billions. Hitting 15 of 15 is a 1 in 428 billion occurrence. To put that into perspective, you would hit the Powerball jackpot 2,443 times before hitting 15 of 15 keno spots once.
If you place a statistician's head in dry ice and his feet in boiling water, then on the average he is fairly comfortable but his comfort has a large variance.

Most people have more than the average number of legs.

Just call me the "quad kickers" of deuces wild and double bonus poker.

Offline talanhart

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Re: keno
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 09:11:41 AM »
For my last 6 or 7 trips to Vegas, I have been playing 2 numbers for 20 games for $1 a game.  I have yet to match my numbers on more than 1 or 2 games out of the 20, yet I still play.  For my last 3 trips, I didn't even match my numbers on 1 game.   Maybe this trip will be my lucky Trip!

Offline StatFreak

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Re: keno
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 10:40:44 AM »
For my last 6 or 7 trips to Vegas, I have been playing 2 numbers for 20 games for $1 a game.  I have yet to match my numbers on more than 1 or 2 games out of the 20, yet I still play.  For my last 3 trips, I didn't even match my numbers on 1 game.   Maybe this trip will be my lucky Trip!

Odds of matching 2 of 2 are 1 in 16.63, so statistically, one hit would be expected but no hits would be quite common.

P.S. I may have screwed up the math because I haven't slept, but I believe that the odds of not hitting it in 20 tries are 1 in 3.46.
Odds of hitting it at least 3 times (three or more) in 20 tries is 1 in 8.66
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 10:51:14 AM by StatFreak »
If you place a statistician's head in dry ice and his feet in boiling water, then on the average he is fairly comfortable but his comfort has a large variance.

Most people have more than the average number of legs.

Just call me the "quad kickers" of deuces wild and double bonus poker.

Offline RecVPPlayer

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Re: keno
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 08:03:15 PM »
See my post above where I have now added in the different returns and Variance rates depending on the Video Keno 4-Spot Pay Schedule plus some additional information which shows a range of not good returns that is found on Video Keno machines.

RecVPPlayer
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 05:10:45 AM by RecVPPlayer »

Offline RecVPPlayer

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Re: keno
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 05:15:08 AM »
And so I wish that I could tell you some good things about traditional as well as Video Keno, but I'm finding return rates to be just abysmal which will just make it harder to win on it!  Just see in my breakdown (that I did earlier in this thread) the range of paybacks that are offered for Video Keno all of which are in the same one casino (Plaza Casino in Downtown LV) which offers returns ranging from as low as about 85% to as high as about 95%.

RecVPPlayer
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 06:48:26 AM by RecVPPlayer »

Offline uknowme

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Re: keno
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 05:52:33 AM »
If you're talking about live keno, then God help you. The payback generally doesn't exceed an abysmal 75% (that's a 25% house edge) and I've found "special" and progressive paytables that were closer to 60% (a 40% house edge). With paybacks like that, you'd be better off staying home, flushing half your bankroll down the toilet, making yourself a bologna sandwich and watching the Simpsons.
What you fail to consider is that Keno is Slow Game that can be played for a buck and you get free drinks.  So...lets say they play one game every 5 minutes and the cocktail waitress comes around every 20.  Betting a buck a game you're risking $12 an hour.   Even on your 'special and progressive paytables example' your expected loss is  $4.80. 

Now, assuming you tip a dollar a drink and your drink is really worth $3.00, over the course of an hour you've earned a +AEV (Alcohol Expected Value) of $4.20.  A tidy profit.

If you were playing $10.00 blackjack with 2 others at the table, you're risking $800 an hour (80 hands).  Throw in just a 1.5% house edge and you end up with an expected loss of $12.00 and an AEV of -$6.00.

Offline jenaphir

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Re: keno
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 07:23:16 AM »
I'm pretty sure the thread starter is long gone.  I know I would be if my first post was asking for information about a specific game and all the responses I got were telling me I should not want to play the game.

Offline RecVPPlayer

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Re: keno
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 09:45:40 AM »
For those who want to play Keno (both traditional and Video Keno), there are definitely several books plus other articles that people can get their hands on.

The Gambler's Book Club (their website is at http://www.gamblersbookclub.com and the physical book store has recently merged with the Gambler's General Store on Main Street just North of Charleston Blvd.) has books on both Video Keno as well as traditional Keno.

As for articles on Video as well as Traditional Keno, they can be found in the Gaming Today Newsletter (you can see an online version of it by going to: http://www.gamingtoday.com ) written by "Keno Lil," "Pesach Kremen" as well as "L.J. Zahm," so check that all out.

RecVPPlayer